Curse

Winds of Blood · Jul 08, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

This is actually my 4th time in the hall of heros last night, when we fought the same god damn build...

1 Ranger, has frozen soil , quick zypher, symbosis , fertile season, and OATH shot to renew all of them...within 3 seconds he put them down.

Now we are fighting over at an area where they get there ghostly hero in hill and with around 1500 hp.... wtf.... monks are the same, there is no logical way to beat them unless you spend your time killing the damn spirits, but when we did that around 10 of them popped up again with oath shot...

Fanta · Jul 08, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Three words, Edge of Extinction

Odd Sock · Jul 08, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Errr just cap the altar first, always and you shouldn't have any problems

Red Locust · Jul 08, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Go for the spamming ranger.
Interrupt him, knock him down, disenchant him, kill him.

And hope he's not too good and hasn't brought counters to all of the above, else you're screwed. Then your only real hope is, like sock said, to cap the altar before they do. Pretty shitty counter, but it's the best available. Go up against a well-built spirit group and you're dead.

kalaris · Jul 08, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fanta

Three words, Edge of Extinction

Quoted for awesomeness, the truth, and cause its the answer to most of life's little problems.

bobrath · Jul 08, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

EoE is an amazing solution here. Of course interupting the spirit layer with your own ranger is a great option as well. Then there's always going in with your mesmer and shutting down the ranger trying to do all this casting. Spirits don't cast all that fast. You can nail em.

Soiled Egg Roll · Jul 08, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

If he casts them on all the same spot, either by mistake or whatever, you can always AoE the spirits(Firestorm, symbol of wrath, etc). After the first time, though, he'll probably be smart and separate the spirits. EoE is probably you're best bet.

ElderAtronach · Jul 08, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Spirits have a 5 second cast time. Try Power Block while he's casting a spirit, followed immediately by Diversion to screw his Oath Shot. Of course, that only works if there's 1 ranger laying down spirits. If there's 2-3 of them, um... yeah hope your team brought EoE.

quanzong · Jul 09, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Heres what I do sometimes, I have a ranger that does that spirt where the healing is 20% slower or something and then attack them.
But the KEY to beating them is ELEMENTALIST. It is VERY hard without them, they seem to have unlimited energy, but if you just give them a nice combonation of nukes, Ele 1 Meteor, Ele 2 uses meteor after its effects are gone, Ele 1 goes back to Meteor, etc. If you see those groups with 6 elements and 2 healers, those are the people who got whooped by them unworthy a lot. Also believe it or not, HENCHMEN are good way to win, Orion, Alesia all you need, or Reyna. with 6 or 5 other people of course, I've gotten serval EIGHT% bonus with them, now its VERY hard to get that. Henchmen are good because they are BOTS, but not smart BOTS like us humans, they know how to counter everything and what works best, they follow orders (cept for RUN, or HIDE).
So you just need a couple of NUKER elements, if in HoH dist 11 or something with no people, HENCHMEN allways work well, but there are people who disargee with me...

Venom · Jul 09, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Ok I see people giving the EoE response to this question often. Thought I'd finally ask... How exactly do you use EoE effectively? I had Beastmastery at 16, and EoE does 52 damage. You'd have to be killing 3 spirits simultaneously for EoE to actually wipe out the rest, wouldn't you? And if you're already concentrating on 3 spirits, why even bother eith EoE?

I've tried EoE in tombs a few times vs spirit builds, and when it was not destroyed, it had little to no effect. The only time people DO destroy it is when they're afraid of their team (the players) dying from it, not the spirits.

Minwanabi · Jul 09, 2005, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Yes, EoE is one of the only responses to builds like this, and it's not even that great. Don't forget, with fertile season, you'll need to kill something like 9 spirits to kill every other one. Plus, in HoH, you get the teams that just stack them on the dias, and their seed heals them all. Frankly, I think Anet should patch so the most recent version of the spirit cancels the previous one out, but we'll what will come.

Kishin · Jul 09, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Just for the record, you can't Power Block a nature ritual because its not a spell.

What annoys me about spirit spam is not the spamming itself, but the fact that most spirit spam builds have such terrible offense that they can't actually kill anyone, so they just drag the battles out for 30+ minutes.

Zeru · Jul 09, 2005, 06:44 AM // 06:44

get lucky and hit oath shot with diversion?

The grief way of spirit spam is with winter/conflag/season spam with 8 /mes secondaries for mantra of cold and a bunch of rangers constantly laying random spirits and the above three. That really sucks to play against if they're good because it takes forever to kill them and there's really no trick way like vs air eles. We can just hope anet makes multiple spirits die faster or removes the ability to have multiple in the same area completely of the same kind because it's just dumb and degrades quality competition (not like tombs has that anyway ugh).

I sometimes play in a group that uses a very modified version of it with natures renewal being dropped often along with fertile, winnowing, and zephyr. It's an anti-caster team with a fear me warrior and r/me echo/debil to boot designed for very heavy energy denial. Few teams run ward of foes and melee and the rangers can interrupt the lone ward spammer (I have yet to see a tombs team with more than 1) so the war/ranger combo just wears them out with dps as their unprepared monks will have absolutely no energy and any ele team is just rolled over.

MCS · Jul 09, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

The only time spirits are lame is on relic runs...

I don't care what anyone says... There is no counter. They spam their spirits on the relic so you have to kill them to get in. They toss down fertile seasons so killing their ghost is a joke with it up. So you take it down only for it to come right back up again. Oh no then wtf your ghost is going down, so you send a monk to heal him while your runner gets pummeled while trying to maneuver around the friggin spirits being spammed all over him to block his path.

FLJEBFKUBWEIFQBUFUIUOUU

REMOVE 2 MINUTE RES. They don't deserve a res....

Anyhoo a quick focus fire will take out a spirit... Take out prioritys then kill them.

My war can 1 hit KO lower level ones, 2-3 higher level ones, gets me nice adrenaline too.

Xellos · Jul 09, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Some spirit builds have gone to the point where they use spirits to maze you in =p tower defense anyone?

Fanta · Jul 09, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Some spirit builds have gone to the point where they use spirits to maze you in =p tower defense anyone?

lol, i was on a team that did that once, our spirit spammer blocked the relic runner off on both sides with spirits.... they were both stuck

Mulatto · Jul 09, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

so u dont like the spam units on the board, well it just a answer to the BS eles have been doing with thier air strikes and thier after shock. -140 a hit with a strike come one the only people that can take a hit like that is rangers because they have armor that protects them from that crap. and now they figured out a way to confuse u so u cant just slam them with those strikes. this game has become less and less team effort and strat and more and more to find out what u can spam the most. blame it on the air eles if u have a problem with it. its just an answer to that crap. I say if u dare take the rangers away then take away the ele damage because it way to over powered

Xellos · Jul 09, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53

But elementalists aren't overpowered. You don't even need rangers to beat elementalists unless the air spikers are a very good group, which hasn't been seen for like, a month now. Spirit spam on the other hand can be done by anyone, and takes alot of work to beat, specially at HoH.

Kishin · Jul 09, 2005, 08:56 PM // 20:56

There were/are plenty of anti-Air elementalist defenses besides spirit spam. Anyone who's complaining about that still needs to go root out a decent protection monk, and then explore the wonderful elementalist skills that begin with the word 'Ward'.

Spirit spam is also beatable, my only comment on the matter is that spirits need to be made transparent (since they are incorporeal beings essentially) so that it can't be abused to wall off relics or something like that. Innovative, yes. Intended use of skill? Probably not. Unless I missed Blockade Spirit on my last trip to the trainer.

Well, that and the fact that spirit spammers need to learn to make better spirit spam builds where they actually kill things instead of just sit there and pluck away for 30+ minutes.

Venom · Jul 09, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Spirit spam on the other hand can be done by anyone, and takes alot of work to beat, specially at HoH.

Spirit spam cannot be done by anyone. Almost any PUG that attempts it won't make it past round 2 or 3. They aren't organized, and for spirit spam to win, you need to be organized. This also means that it does not take a lot of work to beat most spirit spam builds, since they're just pugs. An easy approach would be to try and make a balanced pug, and have someone bring fertile season just for spikes. You'll most likely win against most spirit pugs....

I'd say that spike pugs have a much higher win % than spirit pugs. In fact, many times I see spirit pugs losing to spike pugs (the build they're built to beat). So, if anything should be nerfed, the spike ele's should be the first to get hit with the bat. However, I do agree that sprits should not be solid and used as a blocking tool. That should be an easy change to implement, right? Wonder why they haven't done it...